Discussion:
Should MST3K Have Continued Forever?
(too old to reply)
TMC
2013-03-09 09:38:16 UTC
Permalink
http://officialfan.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=offtopic&action=display&thread=467415

I'm of the opinion that MST3K should have been liked Doctor Who and
just had a revolving cast. The concept just seems too good to not keep
going and the types of characters (a host, an evil scientist, her
goons, the bots) seem flexible enough to cast a different actors into.

There would of course be downsides. For instance there are only so
many and movies out there and even fewer that MST3K could show and
would suit the format. However, taking into account they have the
entire history of cinema to work with it would be quite a while before
they ran out. Plus, time wouldn't just stand still and new bad movies
would continue being made. Also, as a last resort they could always
use the same movie twice. I'm sure a Manos riffing from 2013 with an
all new cast would be quite different from the original.

Another downside could be that some replacements could be weak and
thus entire years of the show could be lame. However, that's something
every continuous series has to face.
Professor Bubba
2013-03-09 11:23:14 UTC
Permalink
In article
Post by TMC
http://officialfan.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=offtopic&action=display&threa
d=467415
I'm of the opinion that MST3K should have been liked Doctor Who and
just had a revolving cast. The concept just seems too good to not keep
going and the types of characters (a host, an evil scientist, her
goons, the bots) seem flexible enough to cast a different actors into.
There would of course be downsides. For instance there are only so
many and movies out there and even fewer that MST3K could show and
would suit the format. However, taking into account they have the
entire history of cinema to work with it would be quite a while before
they ran out. Plus, time wouldn't just stand still and new bad movies
would continue being made. Also, as a last resort they could always
use the same movie twice. I'm sure a Manos riffing from 2013 with an
all new cast would be quite different from the original.
Another downside could be that some replacements could be weak and
thus entire years of the show could be lame. However, that's something
every continuous series has to face.
MST3K was tapped out long before it went away. I loved it long time,
but Joel left and, all of a sudden, everybody seemed to be trying too
hard to be funny. The shark jumped for me when they did the 1952 flick
Invasion U.S.A., and they missed all sorts of beats. The film
"starred" Edward G. Robinson Jr., but there wasn't even a line about
that. They did make a point of riffing on the two Lois Lanes (Phyllis
Coates and Noel Neill both appear briefly, and separately, in the
film), but they somehow misidentified another actress as Phyllis. How
do you do something like MST3K and not know who Phyllis Coates is?

Joel and others later did a thing called Cinematic Titanic, which had
the same flavor as MST3K with silhouettes and all, while Mike and crew
did audio-only commentary tracks that you're supposed to sync with your
copy of the movie. This neatly saved Mike all that licensing money and
permission-seeking. Neither effort seemed to gain any traction,
though.
anim8rFSK
2013-03-09 16:31:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Professor Bubba
In article
Post by TMC
http://officialfan.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=offtopic&action=display&thr
ea
d=467415
I'm of the opinion that MST3K should have been liked Doctor Who and
just had a revolving cast. The concept just seems too good to not keep
going and the types of characters (a host, an evil scientist, her
goons, the bots) seem flexible enough to cast a different actors into.
There would of course be downsides. For instance there are only so
many and movies out there and even fewer that MST3K could show and
would suit the format. However, taking into account they have the
entire history of cinema to work with it would be quite a while before
they ran out. Plus, time wouldn't just stand still and new bad movies
would continue being made. Also, as a last resort they could always
use the same movie twice. I'm sure a Manos riffing from 2013 with an
all new cast would be quite different from the original.
Another downside could be that some replacements could be weak and
thus entire years of the show could be lame. However, that's something
every continuous series has to face.
MST3K was tapped out long before it went away. I loved it long time,
but Joel left and, all of a sudden, everybody seemed to be trying too
hard to be funny. The shark jumped for me when they did the 1952 flick
Invasion U.S.A., and they missed all sorts of beats. The film
For me it jumped with the movie and THIS ISLAND EARTH.
Post by Professor Bubba
"starred" Edward G. Robinson Jr., but there wasn't even a line about
that. They did make a point of riffing on the two Lois Lanes (Phyllis
Coates and Noel Neill both appear briefly, and separately, in the
film), but they somehow misidentified another actress as Phyllis. How
do you do something like MST3K and not know who Phyllis Coates is?
Joel and others later did a thing called Cinematic Titanic, which had
the same flavor as MST3K with silhouettes and all, while Mike and crew
did audio-only commentary tracks that you're supposed to sync with your
copy of the movie. This neatly saved Mike all that licensing money and
permission-seeking. Neither effort seemed to gain any traction,
though.
I think Cinema Titanic is dead, but Rifftrax is still going, and pretty
funny (Birdemic is a riot).
--
"Every time a Kardashian gets a TV show, an angel dies."
Michael OConnor
2013-03-10 02:55:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by anim8rFSK
Post by Professor Bubba
In article
http://officialfan.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=offtopic&action=disp...
ea
d=467415
I'm of the opinion that MST3K should have been liked Doctor Who and
just had a revolving cast. The concept just seems too good to not keep
going and the types of characters (a host, an evil scientist, her
goons, the bots) seem flexible enough to cast a different actors into.
There would of course be downsides. For instance there are only so
many and movies out there and even fewer that MST3K could show and
would suit the format. However, taking into account they have the
entire history of cinema to work with it would be quite a while before
they ran out. Plus, time wouldn't just stand still and new bad movies
would continue being made. Also, as a last resort they could always
use the same movie twice. I'm sure a Manos riffing from 2013 with an
all new cast would be quite different from the original.
Another downside could be that some replacements could be weak and
thus entire years of the show could be lame. However, that's something
every continuous series has to face.
MST3K was tapped out long before it went away.  I loved it long time,
but Joel left and, all of a sudden, everybody seemed to be trying too
hard to be funny.  The shark jumped for me when they did the 1952 flick
Invasion U.S.A., and they missed all sorts of beats.  The film
For me it jumped with the movie and THIS ISLAND EARTH.
Post by Professor Bubba
"starred" Edward G. Robinson Jr., but there wasn't even a line about
that.  They did make a point of riffing on the two Lois Lanes (Phyllis
Coates and Noel Neill both appear briefly, and separately, in the
film), but they somehow misidentified another actress as Phyllis.  How
do you do something like MST3K and not know who Phyllis Coates is?
Joel and others later did a thing called Cinematic Titanic, which had
the same flavor as MST3K with silhouettes and all, while Mike and crew
did audio-only commentary tracks that you're supposed to sync with your
copy of the movie.  This neatly saved Mike all that licensing money and
permission-seeking.  Neither effort seemed to gain any traction,
though.
I think Cinema Titanic is dead, but Rifftrax is still going, and pretty
funny (Birdemic is a riot).
I went to see Cinematic Titanic a year ago, and they did some crappy
low budget 70's movie about this serial killer who could travel via
his astral form from prison and his ghost or whatever was going around
murdering women in the small town he came from. I thought it was very
funny, and I don't understand why they can't adapt CT to television.
Mason Barge
2013-03-09 17:23:28 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 09 Mar 2013 06:23:14 -0500, Professor Bubba
Post by Professor Bubba
In article
Post by TMC
http://officialfan.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=offtopic&action=display&threa
d=467415
I'm of the opinion that MST3K should have been liked Doctor Who and
just had a revolving cast. The concept just seems too good to not keep
going and the types of characters (a host, an evil scientist, her
goons, the bots) seem flexible enough to cast a different actors into.
There would of course be downsides. For instance there are only so
many and movies out there and even fewer that MST3K could show and
would suit the format. However, taking into account they have the
entire history of cinema to work with it would be quite a while before
they ran out. Plus, time wouldn't just stand still and new bad movies
would continue being made. Also, as a last resort they could always
use the same movie twice. I'm sure a Manos riffing from 2013 with an
all new cast would be quite different from the original.
Another downside could be that some replacements could be weak and
thus entire years of the show could be lame. However, that's something
every continuous series has to face.
MST3K was tapped out long before it went away. I loved it long time,
but Joel left and, all of a sudden, everybody seemed to be trying too
hard to be funny. The shark jumped for me when they did the 1952 flick
Invasion U.S.A., and they missed all sorts of beats.
It was indeed a shame. It could have "theoretically" gone on for
decades -- wouldn't you love to hear them do an episode from
Revolution, or Last Resort, or some similar? Walking Dead?
Remysun
2013-03-10 03:44:12 UTC
Permalink
It was indeed a shame.  It could have "theoretically" gone on for
decades -- wouldn't you love to hear them do an episode from
Revolution, or Last Resort, or some similar?  Walking Dead?
Dave Barry kind of did that blogging about 24. It was awesome.
Obveeus
2013-03-10 03:58:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Remysun
It was indeed a shame. It could have "theoretically" gone on for
decades -- wouldn't you love to hear them do an episode from
Revolution, or Last Resort, or some similar? Walking Dead?
Dave Barry kind of did that blogging about 24. It was awesome.
For people that like to watch bad movies, one option is a subscription with:
http://www.cultmovienetwork.com/
Mason Barge
2013-03-10 17:06:26 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 9 Mar 2013 19:44:12 -0800 (PST), Remysun
Post by Remysun
It was indeed a shame.  It could have "theoretically" gone on for
decades -- wouldn't you love to hear them do an episode from
Revolution, or Last Resort, or some similar?  Walking Dead?
Dave Barry kind of did that blogging about 24. It was awesome.
Now that HAD to be funny. I might have to look it up :)
Remysun
2013-03-11 02:46:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mason Barge
On Sat, 9 Mar 2013 19:44:12 -0800 (PST), Remysun
Post by Remysun
It was indeed a shame.  It could have "theoretically" gone on for
decades -- wouldn't you love to hear them do an episode from
Revolution, or Last Resort, or some similar?  Walking Dead?
Dave Barry kind of did that blogging about 24. It was awesome.
Now that HAD to be funny.  I might have to look it up :)
Be sure to check out the other fan comments alongside. Take a season
set. Read along as you press play, it's sublime.
Ken McElhaney
2013-03-11 18:41:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Professor Bubba
In article
http://officialfan.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=offtopic&action=disp...
d=467415
I'm of the opinion that MST3K should have been liked Doctor Who and
just had a revolving cast. The concept just seems too good to not keep
going and the types of characters (a host, an evil scientist, her
goons, the bots) seem flexible enough to cast a different actors into.
There would of course be downsides. For instance there are only so
many and movies out there and even fewer that MST3K could show and
would suit the format. However, taking into account they have the
entire history of cinema to work with it would be quite a while before
they ran out. Plus, time wouldn't just stand still and new bad movies
would continue being made. Also, as a last resort they could always
use the same movie twice. I'm sure a Manos riffing from 2013 with an
all new cast would be quite different from the original.
Another downside could be that some replacements could be weak and
thus entire years of the show could be lame. However, that's something
every continuous series has to face.
MST3K was tapped out long before it went away.  I loved it long time,
but Joel left and, all of a sudden, everybody seemed to be trying too
hard to be funny.  The shark jumped for me when they did the 1952 flick
Invasion U.S.A., and they missed all sorts of beats.  The film
"starred" Edward G. Robinson Jr., but there wasn't even a line about
that.  They did make a point of riffing on the two Lois Lanes (Phyllis
Coates and Noel Neill both appear briefly, and separately, in the
film), but they somehow misidentified another actress as Phyllis.  How
do you do something like MST3K and not know who Phyllis Coates is?
Joel and others later did a thing called Cinematic Titanic, which had
the same flavor as MST3K with silhouettes and all, while Mike and crew
did audio-only commentary tracks that you're supposed to sync with your
copy of the movie.  This neatly saved Mike all that licensing money and
permission-seeking.  Neither effort seemed to gain any traction,
though.
I guess it depends on what you mean by "traction". While the demise of
Cinematic Titanic is one thing, Rifftrax has done quite well for
itself. In fact, a Kickstarter campaign to raise money to live riff
"Twilight" is now four times past its goal. No traction? Well, it was
never the intention of Rifftrax to go on cable TV, but they regularly
produce new riffs on full length movies, have VOD that can be
downloaded and shorts as well.

I think "successful" would more accurately describe Rifftrax whether
you care for the humor or not anymore, they have succeeded in creating
a profitable business venture for several years now and show little
sign of letting up.

Ken
Barb May
2013-03-11 20:14:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ken McElhaney
I think "successful" would more accurately describe Rifftrax whether
you care for the humor or not anymore, they have succeeded in creating
a profitable business venture for several years now and show little
sign of letting up.
Ken
Love those guys...

I prefer downloading the movies with the Rifftrax already included (via
torrents), so I've donated some money to them via the PayPal "donate"
link on their web site.
--
Barb
Professor Bubba
2013-03-11 20:24:14 UTC
Permalink
In article
Post by Ken McElhaney
Post by Professor Bubba
Joel and others later did a thing called Cinematic Titanic, which had
the same flavor as MST3K with silhouettes and all, while Mike and crew
did audio-only commentary tracks that you're supposed to sync with your
copy of the movie.  This neatly saved Mike all that licensing money and
permission-seeking.  Neither effort seemed to gain any traction,
though.
I guess it depends on what you mean by "traction". While the demise of
Cinematic Titanic is one thing, Rifftrax has done quite well for
itself. In fact, a Kickstarter campaign to raise money to live riff
"Twilight" is now four times past its goal. No traction? Well, it was
never the intention of Rifftrax to go on cable TV, but they regularly
produce new riffs on full length movies, have VOD that can be
downloaded and shorts as well.
I think "successful" would more accurately describe Rifftrax whether
you care for the humor or not anymore, they have succeeded in creating
a profitable business venture for several years now and show little
sign of letting up.
I'm happy for Mike et al. that Rifftrax is still going, but it's never
become a "thing." I know that what I meant by "traction" wasn't clear.

I didn't know that Cinematic Titanic had flatlined. I did know that no
one was talking about it, though, the same way nobody talks about
Rifftrax (where "nobody" may also mean "hardly anybody").
m***@hotmail.com
2013-03-11 21:56:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Professor Bubba
In article
Post by Ken McElhaney
Post by Professor Bubba
Joel and others later did a thing called Cinematic Titanic, which had
the same flavor as MST3K with silhouettes and all, while Mike and crew
did audio-only commentary tracks that you're supposed to sync with your
copy of the movie.  This neatly saved Mike all that licensing money and
permission-seeking.  Neither effort seemed to gain any traction,
though.
I guess it depends on what you mean by "traction". While the demise of
Cinematic Titanic is one thing, Rifftrax has done quite well for
itself. In fact, a Kickstarter campaign to raise money to live riff
"Twilight" is now four times past its goal. No traction? Well, it was
never the intention of Rifftrax to go on cable TV, but they regularly
produce new riffs on full length movies, have VOD that can be
downloaded and shorts as well.
I think "successful" would more accurately describe Rifftrax whether
you care for the humor or not anymore, they have succeeded in creating
a profitable business venture for several years now and show little
sign of letting up.
I'm happy for Mike et al. that Rifftrax is still going, but it's never
become a "thing."  I know that what I meant by "traction" wasn't clear.
I didn't know that Cinematic Titanic had flatlined.  I did know that no
one was talking about it, though, the same way nobody talks about
Rifftrax (where "nobody" may also mean "hardly anybody").
I guess it depends on what "hardly anybody" means. I would not count
this newsgroup, but if you just look at the Kickstarter project they
are currently doing right now, I think that it does qualify as a
"thing" or "something" at least. Raising over $200,000 for a live riff
has to involve quite a few people who think Rifftrax is a "thing".
http://tinyurl.com/adcsq5t

Perhaps the conversation has simply moved somewhere else?

Ken
Professor Bubba
2013-03-11 22:21:12 UTC
Permalink
In article
Post by m***@hotmail.com
Post by Professor Bubba
In article
Post by Ken McElhaney
Post by Professor Bubba
Joel and others later did a thing called Cinematic Titanic, which had
the same flavor as MST3K with silhouettes and all, while Mike and crew
did audio-only commentary tracks that you're supposed to sync with your
copy of the movie.  This neatly saved Mike all that licensing money and
permission-seeking.  Neither effort seemed to gain any traction,
though.
I guess it depends on what you mean by "traction". While the demise of
Cinematic Titanic is one thing, Rifftrax has done quite well for
itself. In fact, a Kickstarter campaign to raise money to live riff
"Twilight" is now four times past its goal. No traction? Well, it was
never the intention of Rifftrax to go on cable TV, but they regularly
produce new riffs on full length movies, have VOD that can be
downloaded and shorts as well.
I think "successful" would more accurately describe Rifftrax whether
you care for the humor or not anymore, they have succeeded in creating
a profitable business venture for several years now and show little
sign of letting up.
I'm happy for Mike et al. that Rifftrax is still going, but it's never
become a "thing."  I know that what I meant by "traction" wasn't clear.
I didn't know that Cinematic Titanic had flatlined.  I did know that no
one was talking about it, though, the same way nobody talks about
Rifftrax (where "nobody" may also mean "hardly anybody").
I guess it depends on what "hardly anybody" means. I would not count
this newsgroup, but if you just look at the Kickstarter project they
are currently doing right now, I think that it does qualify as a
"thing" or "something" at least. Raising over $200,000 for a live riff
has to involve quite a few people who think Rifftrax is a "thing".
http://tinyurl.com/adcsq5t
Perhaps the conversation has simply moved somewhere else?
Maybe so, because I hadn't heard a thing about it since the startup
until now. I agree that money talks, but in this case I guess it's not
talking to me. Thing is, the apparent success of Rifftrax is exactly
the kind of deal I should have been hearing about, going where I go and
talking who I talk to. One of us seems to be doing something wrong.
m***@hotmail.com
2013-03-11 22:46:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Professor Bubba
In article
Post by m***@hotmail.com
Post by Professor Bubba
In article
Post by Ken McElhaney
Post by Professor Bubba
Joel and others later did a thing called Cinematic Titanic, which had
the same flavor as MST3K with silhouettes and all, while Mike and crew
did audio-only commentary tracks that you're supposed to sync with your
copy of the movie. This neatly saved Mike all that licensing money and
permission-seeking. Neither effort seemed to gain any traction,
though.
I guess it depends on what you mean by "traction". While the demise of
Cinematic Titanic is one thing, Rifftrax has done quite well for
itself. In fact, a Kickstarter campaign to raise money to live riff
"Twilight" is now four times past its goal. No traction? Well, it was
never the intention of Rifftrax to go on cable TV, but they regularly
produce new riffs on full length movies, have VOD that can be
downloaded and shorts as well.
I think "successful" would more accurately describe Rifftrax whether
you care for the humor or not anymore, they have succeeded in creating
a profitable business venture for several years now and show little
sign of letting up.
I'm happy for Mike et al. that Rifftrax is still going, but it's never
become a "thing." I know that what I meant by "traction" wasn't clear.
I didn't know that Cinematic Titanic had flatlined. I did know that no
one was talking about it, though, the same way nobody talks about
Rifftrax (where "nobody" may also mean "hardly anybody").
I guess it depends on what "hardly anybody" means. I would not count
this newsgroup, but if you just look at the Kickstarter project they
are currently doing right now, I think that it does qualify as a
"thing" or "something" at least. Raising over $200,000 for a live riff
has to involve quite a few people who think Rifftrax is a "thing".
http://tinyurl.com/adcsq5t
Perhaps the conversation has simply moved somewhere else?
Maybe so, because I hadn't heard a thing about it since the startup
until now.  I agree that money talks, but in this case I guess it's not
talking to me.  Thing is, the apparent success of Rifftrax is exactly
the kind of deal I should have been hearing about, going where I go and
talking who I talk to.  One of us seems to be doing something wrong.
If you follow the "Satellite News", the unofficial MST3K website, they
post Rifftrax stuff all the time and it generally gets plenty of
comments.
http://www.mst3kinfo.com/
I usually download the short films (99 cents each) and they have one
or two live shows which are broadcast across the country in selected
movie theaters. The "Twilight" effort represents a big change for them
as they usually do public domain stuff (Plan 9 for example).

Cinematic Titanic started out as DVD or download-only and then adding
live performances. Joel just announced that this would be the last
year for Cinematic Titanic, at least in terms of performing live.

Rifftrax is part of a larger corporation, but they have a staff of
writers and even guests who do commentary on their voice-overs from
time to time. One of their latest coups was getting "Cool as Ice", the
disastrous Vanilla Ice film from the early 90's as a VOD...not just a
commentary track, but the video itself can be downloaded with the
commentary track.

Ken
Professor Bubba
2013-03-12 03:00:17 UTC
Permalink
In article
Post by m***@hotmail.com
If you follow the "Satellite News", the unofficial MST3K website, they
post Rifftrax stuff all the time and it generally gets plenty of
comments.
http://www.mst3kinfo.com/
I usually download the short films (99 cents each) and they have one
or two live shows which are broadcast across the country in selected
movie theaters. The "Twilight" effort represents a big change for them
as they usually do public domain stuff (Plan 9 for example).
Cinematic Titanic started out as DVD or download-only and then adding
live performances. Joel just announced that this would be the last
year for Cinematic Titanic, at least in terms of performing live.
Rifftrax is part of a larger corporation, but they have a staff of
writers and even guests who do commentary on their voice-overs from
time to time. One of their latest coups was getting "Cool as Ice", the
disastrous Vanilla Ice film from the early 90's as a VOD...not just a
commentary track, but the video itself can be downloaded with the
commentary track.
Ken
Thanks for all the information in your two posts. I really appreciate
it.
anim8rFSK
2013-03-11 23:09:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Professor Bubba
In article
Post by Ken McElhaney
Post by Professor Bubba
Joel and others later did a thing called Cinematic Titanic, which had
the same flavor as MST3K with silhouettes and all, while Mike and crew
did audio-only commentary tracks that you're supposed to sync with your
copy of the movie.  This neatly saved Mike all that licensing money and
permission-seeking.  Neither effort seemed to gain any traction,
though.
I guess it depends on what you mean by "traction". While the demise of
Cinematic Titanic is one thing, Rifftrax has done quite well for
itself. In fact, a Kickstarter campaign to raise money to live riff
"Twilight" is now four times past its goal. No traction? Well, it was
never the intention of Rifftrax to go on cable TV, but they regularly
produce new riffs on full length movies, have VOD that can be
downloaded and shorts as well.
I think "successful" would more accurately describe Rifftrax whether
you care for the humor or not anymore, they have succeeded in creating
a profitable business venture for several years now and show little
sign of letting up.
I'm happy for Mike et al. that Rifftrax is still going, but it's never
become a "thing." I know that what I meant by "traction" wasn't clear.
I didn't know that Cinematic Titanic had flatlined. I did know that no
one was talking about it, though, the same way nobody talks about
Rifftrax (where "nobody" may also mean "hardly anybody").
http://www.cinematictitanic.com

Looks like they're still around, just 'cloaked' :)
--
"Every time a Kardashian gets a TV show, an angel dies."
Lewis
2013-03-12 05:03:33 UTC
Permalink
In message <05b27dde-3ab7-47e1-9907-
Post by Ken McElhaney
Post by Professor Bubba
In article
http://officialfan.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=offtopic&action=disp...
d=467415
I'm of the opinion that MST3K should have been liked Doctor Who and
just had a revolving cast. The concept just seems too good to not keep
going and the types of characters (a host, an evil scientist, her
goons, the bots) seem flexible enough to cast a different actors into.
There would of course be downsides. For instance there are only so
many and movies out there and even fewer that MST3K could show and
would suit the format. However, taking into account they have the
entire history of cinema to work with it would be quite a while before
they ran out. Plus, time wouldn't just stand still and new bad movies
would continue being made. Also, as a last resort they could always
use the same movie twice. I'm sure a Manos riffing from 2013 with an
all new cast would be quite different from the original.
Another downside could be that some replacements could be weak and
thus entire years of the show could be lame. However, that's something
every continuous series has to face.
MST3K was tapped out long before it went away.  I loved it long time,
but Joel left and, all of a sudden, everybody seemed to be trying too
hard to be funny.  The shark jumped for me when they did the 1952 flick
Invasion U.S.A., and they missed all sorts of beats.  The film
"starred" Edward G. Robinson Jr., but there wasn't even a line about
that.  They did make a point of riffing on the two Lois Lanes (Phyllis
Coates and Noel Neill both appear briefly, and separately, in the
film), but they somehow misidentified another actress as Phyllis.  How
do you do something like MST3K and not know who Phyllis Coates is?
Joel and others later did a thing called Cinematic Titanic, which had
the same flavor as MST3K with silhouettes and all, while Mike and crew
did audio-only commentary tracks that you're supposed to sync with your
copy of the movie.  This neatly saved Mike all that licensing money and
permission-seeking.  Neither effort seemed to gain any traction,
though.
I guess it depends on what you mean by "traction". While the demise of
Cinematic Titanic is one thing, Rifftrax has done quite well for
itself. In fact, a Kickstarter campaign to raise money to live riff
"Twilight" is now four times past its goal. No traction? Well, it was
never the intention of Rifftrax to go on cable TV, but they regularly
produce new riffs on full length movies, have VOD that can be
downloaded and shorts as well.
I think "successful" would more accurately describe Rifftrax whether
you care for the humor or not anymore, they have succeeded in creating
a profitable business venture for several years now and show little
sign of letting up.
I've been to two Rifftrax shows and will go to the Twilight one, if
they get the rights (it's the only way I would ever see Twilight).

After watching Star Trek (2009) which is, to my mind, the best of the
11 Star Trek movies, I watched it again with their commentary, curious
about how well their comedy would work with a good movie. The answer
is, very well.

My kids watch Raiders of the Lost Ark (or was it Last Crusade?) with
the Rifftrax commentary and loved it, and both of them loved seeing
Plan 9 From Out Space (in glorious color!) 'live' in the theatre.

As far as the original mst3k goes, I really liked Joel, but the show
didn't drop after he left because the writers didn't change. Joel was
a performer, Mike Nelson was the one writing his lines.

I still say, "Push the button, Frank" anytime I want the kids to press
the elevator button (or some other button). They haven’t seen mst3k,
so they don't get the reference. But one day they will. And they will.
--
Stomach in! Chest out! on your marks! get set! GO! Now, now that you're
free, what are you gonna be? Who are you gonna see? And where, where
will you go, and how will you know you didn't get it all wrong?
George Johnson
2013-03-11 10:48:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by TMC
http://officialfan.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=offtopic&action=display&thread=467415
I'm of the opinion that MST3K should have been liked Doctor Who and
just had a revolving cast. The concept just seems too good to not keep
going and the types of characters (a host, an evil scientist, her
goons, the bots) seem flexible enough to cast a different actors into.
There would of course be downsides. For instance there are only so
many and movies out there and even fewer that MST3K could show and
would suit the format. However, taking into account they have the
entire history of cinema to work with it would be quite a while before
they ran out. Plus, time wouldn't just stand still and new bad movies
would continue being made. Also, as a last resort they could always
use the same movie twice. I'm sure a Manos riffing from 2013 with an
all new cast would be quite different from the original.
Another downside could be that some replacements could be weak and
thus entire years of the show could be lame. However, that's something
every continuous series has to face.
Ah, the classic dilemma of success.
Retire while in strength & optimism or fade into obscurity as your
fanbase grows bored?

Take "The Simpsons", many folks felt it should've ended within the first
decade, others prefer the current version.
You can continue altering your new fan's perceptions by shaking up the
cast or try to remain the same through decades.

Popular success can be just as much a burden as an obscure
mediocre-but-useful day job.
anim8rFSK
2013-03-11 13:13:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Johnson
Post by TMC
http://officialfan.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=offtopic&action=display&thr
ead=467415
I'm of the opinion that MST3K should have been liked Doctor Who and
just had a revolving cast. The concept just seems too good to not keep
going and the types of characters (a host, an evil scientist, her
goons, the bots) seem flexible enough to cast a different actors into.
There would of course be downsides. For instance there are only so
many and movies out there and even fewer that MST3K could show and
would suit the format. However, taking into account they have the
entire history of cinema to work with it would be quite a while before
they ran out. Plus, time wouldn't just stand still and new bad movies
would continue being made. Also, as a last resort they could always
use the same movie twice. I'm sure a Manos riffing from 2013 with an
all new cast would be quite different from the original.
Another downside could be that some replacements could be weak and
thus entire years of the show could be lame. However, that's something
every continuous series has to face.
Ah, the classic dilemma of success.
Retire while in strength & optimism or fade into obscurity as your
fanbase grows bored?
Take "The Simpsons", many folks felt it should've ended within the first
decade, others prefer the current version.
You can continue altering your new fan's perceptions by shaking up the
cast or try to remain the same through decades.
Popular success can be just as much a burden as an obscure
mediocre-but-useful day job.
One big problem is that the creators kept leaving (and new ones came in)
and everybody got a piece of the pie. They usually cite this as the
reason they can't bring the show back; too many controlling interests.
--
"Every time a Kardashian gets a TV show, an angel dies."
Dimensional Traveler
2013-03-11 23:52:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by anim8rFSK
One big problem is that the creators kept leaving (and new ones came in)
and everybody got a piece of the pie. They usually cite this as the
reason they can't bring the show back; too many controlling interests.
So many people in control that no one is in control?
--
The 'Enterprise' crew in the 2009 Star Trek are adrenaline addicted,
hyper-active teenagers with ADD whose Ritalin got replaced with
methamphetamine, displaying a level of discipline that a Somali pirate
wouldn't tolerate.
anim8rFSK
2013-03-12 03:04:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by anim8rFSK
One big problem is that the creators kept leaving (and new ones came in)
and everybody got a piece of the pie. They usually cite this as the
reason they can't bring the show back; too many controlling interests.
So many people in control that no one is in control?
Yeah. And you get stuff like, Joel owns Gizmonic, so the Mads had to
operate out of somewhere else (enter Deep 13) and oopsie that means a
new theme song and now you have to keep track of who came up with Deep
13 and if you lose that when *they* leave and it quickly spirals out of
control.
--
"Every time a Kardashian gets a TV show, an angel dies."
Dano
2013-03-12 04:04:48 UTC
Permalink
Forever is a very long time.
Chris "Sampo" Cornell
2013-03-12 09:24:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dano
Forever is a very long time.
It's a ridiculous question. All TV shows end. But its final cancellation
had nothing to do with a decline in quality (some individual opinions to
the contrary). MST3K never jumped the shark. Joel's brilliant concept
simply became too expensive for network TV. That's why it will never
return to TV. (For more info on why MST3K will never return to network
TV, visit http://www.mst3kinfo.com/mstfaq/syfy.html.)

As for it never becoming a "thing" -- I beg to differ. For proof, I only
need to point out that the show was cancelled 14 YEARS AGO and here we
are talking about it. Go to Twitter and search for "MST3K." You'll find
HUNDREDS of conversations about it daily. How many other TV shows that
have been off the air for 14 YEARS can you say THAT about?

The right people still get it.

Sampo (who never crossposts...doh!)
Professor Bubba
2013-03-12 09:50:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris "Sampo" Cornell
Post by Dano
Forever is a very long time.
It's a ridiculous question. All TV shows end. But its final cancellation
had nothing to do with a decline in quality (some individual opinions to
the contrary). MST3K never jumped the shark. Joel's brilliant concept
simply became too expensive for network TV.
I have to point out here that your own contrarian opinion to the
contrary is an opinion, not a fact. The show jumped the shark when the
work got sloppy; I picked Invasion U.S.A. as the jump point because
that's when the problems became too large for me to ignore. I know
that many stuck it out to the end without much if any problem.

MST3K was never on network TV. I remember they tried a syndicated
version of their library on broadcast stations, but it didn't do well.
Maybe cutting it to an hour (and running the films in two parts) hurt
it. Maybe the larger audience just wasn't interested. I don't know.
They went to the effort of making new wraparounds, which was
impressive.
Post by Chris "Sampo" Cornell
That's why it will never return to TV. (For more info on why MST3K
will never return to network TV, visit
http://www.mst3kinfo.com/mstfaq/syfy.html.)
As for it never becoming a "thing" -- I beg to differ.
Who said it hadn't? I think you're conflating the comments on MST3K
with the ones about Cinematic Titanic and Rifftrax.
Post by Chris "Sampo" Cornell
For proof, I only need to point out that the show was cancelled 14
YEARS AGO and here we are talking about it. Go to Twitter and search
for "MST3K." You'll find HUNDREDS of conversations about it daily.
How many other TV shows that have been off the air for 14 YEARS can
you say THAT about?
Many, and some of them have been off the air for much longer, but no
one was saying that MST3K didn't belong in the pantheon of "past shows
people still talk about a lot."
Post by Chris "Sampo" Cornell
The right people still get it.
Sampo (who never crossposts...doh!)
moviePig
2013-03-11 14:15:17 UTC
Permalink
http://officialfan.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=offtopic&action=disp...
I'm of the opinion that MST3K should have been liked Doctor Who and
just had a revolving cast. The concept just seems too good to not keep
going and the types of characters (a host, an evil scientist, her
goons, the bots) seem flexible enough to cast a different actors into.
There would of course be downsides. For instance there are only so
many and movies out there and even fewer that MST3K could show and
would suit the format. However, taking into account they have the
entire history of cinema to work with it would be quite a while before
they ran out. Plus, time wouldn't just stand still and new bad movies
would continue being made. Also, as a last resort they could always
use the same movie twice. I'm sure a Manos riffing from 2013 with an
all new cast would be quite different from the original.
Another downside could be that some replacements could be weak and
thus entire years of the show could be lame. However, that's something
every continuous series has to face.
    Ah, the classic dilemma of success.
    Retire while in strength & optimism or fade into obscurity as your
fanbase grows bored?
    Take "The Simpsons", many folks felt it should've ended within the first
decade, others prefer the current version.
    You can continue altering your new fan's perceptions by shaking up the
cast or try to remain the same through decades.
    Popular success can be just as much a burden as an obscure
mediocre-but-useful day job.
Admittedly, 'The Simpsons' is a living miracle. Nevertheless, if you
want to start a petition that all series should be mini-series, I'll
sign.

--

- - - - - - - -
YOUR taste at work...
http://www.moviepig.com
Doug Elrod
2013-03-12 20:12:24 UTC
Permalink
It's inevitable that people will want to move on at some point. But even if "Mystery Science Theater 3000" doesn't survive, itself, it's amazing comedy-amplification ought to find a home, in some way, in future media. (I'm thinking of the way that the movie itself becomes like a "straight man" to the jokesters, or, occasionally, vice-versa.... It's just an amazing way to deliver a HUGE number of jokes to the viewing public!)

I just hope there never is *too* long a gap without this sort of comedy!

-Doug Elrod (***@cornell.edu)
Barb May
2014-08-03 17:28:15 UTC
Permalink
Yes
--
Barb
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